Shifting the goal post

It is not uncommon to see preachers particularly those of the WoF movement pick and choose scriptures in a way that suits them. They keep inventing new ways of bending scriptures to suit their beliefs; deceiving the gullible as they go along.

I still cannot understand why the concept of the tithe being the tenth seems too difficult to grasp. Instead there is still the huge mistake of equating the tenth with 10%; they are not the same thing! I will buttress my point with the popular doctrine of the firstfruit.

It is common knowledge that the firstfruit denotes the first of something, even the bible says so. And even though the concept is limited to agricultural produce and livestock alone, these preachers try to extend it to money. Some call it the first salary or wage you earn in a year while other call it the first 10% of what you earn monthly (As if one can tell the difference between the first 10% and last 10% of £1000). Although none of these schools of thought enjoy scriptural support, they all share one common truth; calling the firstfruit the first. If they understand the first to mean the first of something and not 1% of that thing, then why don’t they extend that same knowledge to the tenth? Why will you say it is the same thing as 10%?

If I had ten balls of different colours lined up and wanted to know their colours, the logically way of doing so will be by listing the position of each ball and name its colour. For example

First –red

Second-blue

Third-green

Fourth-purple

Fifth-indigo

Sixth-maroon

Seventh-violet

Eighth-yellow

Ninth-peach

Tenth-fuchsia

If this was a classroom exercise for some kids and I asked them which ball is peach, will an answer of 9% be correct? Definitely not! Why then is the belief that tenth also means the same thing as 10%? It is even more annoying when we all agree that first means first and not 1%.

How will it look if I decide to extend our concept of the tenth meaning the same thing as 10% to all of the balls?

First (means same thing as 1%)–red

Second (means same thing as 2%)-blue

Third (means same thing as 3%)-green

Fourth (means same thing as 4%)-purple

Fifth (means same thing as 5%)-indigo

Sixth (means same thing as 6%)-maroon

Seventh (means same thing as 7%)-violet

Eighth (means same thing as 8%)-yellow

Ninth (means same thing as 9%)-peach

Tenth (means same thing as 10%)-fuchsia

Even the unschooled can tell that these definitions are off.

The tithe and the firstfruits were positions, positions which were Old Testament shadows of New Testament realities. The firstfruit, the first, was a shadow of Jesus the firstborn of all creation and the tithe, the tenth, was a shadow of the church as ten represents grace. We were saved by grace remember?

Seeing that the bible never defined the tithe in terms of percentages neither calling it 10% of currency for that matter, where then did this definition come from? Well your guess is as good as mine.

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18 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Perry Martin
    Nov 23, 2011 @ 15:31:37

    I accept your challenge and will get back with you I will provide scripture for what I believe. The WofF movement isn’t about money it’s about the blessing. We agree on more than we disagree. Jesus himself told the rich young ruler to give everything away and he would repay 100 fold in this life. Was Jesus lieiing?
    I won’t dispute the Word of God. I choose to believe it all.

    Reply

    • eliteinchrist
      Nov 24, 2011 @ 10:52:55

      And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. Mathew 19: 29.

      Are you also positing that in addition to receiving a 100 fold wealth we will also get a 100 fold wives?

      This is not a competition, you are free to believe what you want to believe.

      Reply

      • jesusembrace
        Nov 24, 2011 @ 16:00:40

        So what does your belief system think Jesus ment by 100 fold.

      • eliteinchrist
        Nov 25, 2011 @ 10:55:21

        It is not at all about me or what I believe. It is about what the bible says and I think the bible’s position is pretty clear on this.

      • jesusembrace
        Nov 25, 2011 @ 15:32:27

        That is a non answer to a legit question

      • eliteinchrist
        Nov 25, 2011 @ 18:12:11

        See who is talking about a non answer. Did you ever answer the 100 fold wives question I posed?

      • jesusembrace
        Nov 26, 2011 @ 00:26:50

        I didn’t have an answer on your 100 wives question everything else listed could be in regards to the Gain of family as in believers for ever actual family you leave you will gain 100 fold in spiritual family since you are leaving them to follow Christ. He dose mention homes and lands. I have believed that the point was to show if you did not have love of money and had faith in Christ and his meeting all your needs, it wouldn’t be an issue to walk away from everything and trust in God. Of course I believe under the new covenant every thing of mine is his and everything of his is mine. So I have no worry for today or tomorrow. I am working on speaking what I believe and stop making negetive comments on how people will fail me. It is a hard habit to break.

    • Benjamin
      Nov 29, 2011 @ 13:05:27

      Hi All, I’m new to this blog…I just saw it. My believe is that this blog is here for us to be more equipped, furnished, enlightened and question (if possible) our believe system.

      For us to appreciate the basics of the scripture we must understand the various divisions of the Holy Bible and figure of speech as it relates to that time.

      Now to comment on your statement: the rich ruler came to Jesus and said (in one of the synoptic gospel), “good Master….what must I (the ruler) do to inherit eternal life?” Now Jesus’ response to him and eventually comment to Peter, should make you pause to think and ask; what has eye of the needle and the guy selling all that he has got to do with his (ruler) initial question which was …what must I do to inherit eternal life…

      The truth is that the ruler heart/strength is on his wealth that he has amassed (either through hard work or by inheritance) not on God and believes he can achieve it by his effort. Because where you heart is that is where your (what you treasure) will be also.

      That was the reason he was said and the same reason the disciples asked that question. Then Jesus then concluded by saying that “with God (not by yourself) all things are possible”.

      And when you said hundred fold (not 100 fold, there are two different things) blessings, your failed to add tribulation as part of the gifts.

      Reply

  2. hije
    Nov 27, 2011 @ 16:02:52

    You are both saying the same thing. If you believe in giving, give according to how God has blessed you. Giving does not mean to church only, it can mean giving to the poor in your community, office complex, school area, your relatives etc. Note that the bible emphasized the need to give to the poor more than paying tithe or taking gifts to the temple.

    We have so mystified giving to church building projects etc and have forgotten that God demands we give for the sake of the poor. People comes first before buildings or structures. God blessed the centurion as read in Acts 10:1-7″ and the angel of the Lord appeared before Cornelius and said your prayers have been heard and your alms a memorial to God.

    So God remembered the giving he gave not to prophets, pastors, temple building etc but alms to the poor. The tithe is to be eaten by you, your family, servants, the fatherless, widows, strangers etc Due 14:22.

    Reply

    • jesusembrace
      Dec 01, 2011 @ 07:25:51

      I don’t doubt that there are many different beliefs and interpretations of the words in the bible. We don’t all agree. And no one person is correct on knowing what The Holy Spirit ment when he inspired the writers of the new testament. I believe that the Holy Spirit can teach us what he wants us to know. I want to give and I believe God blesses my giving. Much of the argument given here is that we are already blessed so giving can not increase our blessing. I believe God can bless what we give, and does. I will continue to give and recieve my blessing from God. Others don’t have to believe only I do. I believe in seed time and harvest. If no one else does that is ok with me. It works for me.

      Reply

      • eliteinchrist
        Dec 01, 2011 @ 15:11:46

        Perry, I really do not want to come across as patronising but I don’t think labelling a thing that works the right thing is the best way to go about sourcing doctrines from the bible.

        The book of Proverbs tells us that God looks at the motive behind every action, in other words God is more interested in the process than the end result. Moses is a very good example; God told him to speak to the rock the second time but he smote it instead. Water did come gushing out but God was not happy with him.

        We do not give because we want to be blessed but give because we are already blessed and want others to partake of this blessing. And of a truth, God looks at the motive behind our giving. I cannot imagine God will be pleased with someone who gives because he wants to receive? That completely reeks of selfishness.

        You continue to maintain “I believe this and that” but haven’t provided any scriptures in support of these beliefs. It is not enough to profess personal beliefs without scriptural backing because that will mean personal conviction and not scripture becomes the standard.

        In the book of Acts, Cornelius and his household receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost was simply not enough proof that the gentiles were to be saved. Peter and the Apostles provided scriptures that showed the gentiles also will receive salvation. Also, the writer of the book of Hebrews painstakingly provided scriptural proof to the Christian Jews on the priesthood of Jesus. No one would have listened to him if he simply said “I believe Jesus is the High Priest and it works for me”.

        If you do not provide scriptural evidence for what you believe, it is simply personal opinion. And we cannot build doctrines on that.

        God bless.

      • jesusembrace
        Dec 01, 2011 @ 17:25:33

        Your statement “God is more interested in the process than the end result.” sounds like law to me. I believe In process but you disregard any scripture that doesn’t agree with you. I i i I am not trying to convince you of anything. If you think you are able to argue someone’s faith. I am not. The Word Works. Again you don’t have to agree.

      • eliteinchrist
        Dec 04, 2011 @ 12:35:35

        And the statement sounds like law in what way? Dude, unlike you I provide scriptures for things I say. I gave Moses as an example. And here is another scriptural proof: People may be pure in their own eyes, but the Lord examines their motives. Proverbs 16:2

        This conversation is certainly going nowhere and attacking me does not prove you are correct. If you cannot provide any scriptural proof then let’s leave it at this.

        God bless.

  3. Chris Hughes
    Jan 20, 2012 @ 00:48:28

    hello, this reading is really decided on which bible you read. now if you go into the KJV it says “the tenth shall be holy unto the lord” BUT the NIV says ” one-tenth is holy to the lord” obviously the KJV version seems as if its the first 10, but clearly the NIV says ONE-TENTH which means to me 10%

    Reply

  4. Sam
    Apr 03, 2012 @ 09:02:47

    Um…I don’t know a single preacher who thinks that ‘firstfruits’ means ’10%’ – if you wouldn’t mind giving me a concrete example, that would be great. I’m not in the WoF movement and intensely dislike a lot of its theology, but it seems to me that you’re beating up a straw man here. The concept of giving firstfruits means that, if you earn £1,000 in a month, that you give whatever you want to give before you do anything else. E.g. if you get paid on the 1st, you set up a standing order to give your money on the 1st.

    ‘Tithe’ means 10%, ‘firstfruits’ means before anything else.

    Reply

    • eliteinchrist
      Apr 03, 2012 @ 10:53:51

      Sam, you are arriving at your answer by pure logic and not basing it on scripture. The concept of firstfruit cannot be extended to money; it was purely an agricultural concept. And this is how the bible defines it.

      The first firstfruits offered unto God was with regards to the first harvest of the land of promise. God instructed the children of Israel not to eat the fruits of the first harvest until they had given a sheaf from the first cutting to the priest. This was to be offered up as firstfruits on the day after Sabbath (Sunday). A one year old lamb was also offered as a burnt offering. This was a one off event. Lev 23: 9 – 14

      And the other one was done on the Sunday following the Feast of Passover. During this feast, the children of Israel were instructed to present a sheaf of barley which was the firstfruit on the day after the Sabbath (Sunday). Fifty days after this was presented, they were to present an offering of new grain to the Lord. This was in the form of two loaves of bread made from four quarts of choice flour and yeast. Along with this offering of firstfruits, seven one year old lambs without defects, one young bull and two rams were to be presented as burnt offerings. One male goat was presented as a sin offering and two one year old male lambs as peace offerings. This was a continuous event. Lev 23: 15 – 20.

      So your notion of giving anything you want first as firstfruit is not at all based on scripture, so I don’t think am the one beating a straw man.

      Am surprised you’ve never heard the firstfruit defined as the first 10%, this definition is quite common in the WoF circles.

      Reply

    • jesusembraceministry
      Apr 03, 2012 @ 13:37:18

      Sam, this is really a waste of time. The author of this blog is a hit man for his belief and will attack personally, anyone who questions his interpretation of the bible. He is 100% anti-tithing. Read all his posts they go back years I gave up. God will honor him with what ever he gives but he truly believes everything is his to give as he sees fit. 0 is ok 100% is ok what ever he feels like. But make sure you pay your bills before you give that is a must. God don’t like no slackers.

      Reply

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